Discussion:
Manmade Global Warming! - Garbage!
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Vicegerent
2006-12-21 16:51:18 UTC
Permalink
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org

Imagine living in a world where no one is allowed to think
independent thoughts or take independent actions. Only
pre-approved human response would be acceptable. To break
the rule and engage in forbidden thought would result in
terrible retribution, perhaps leading literally to ones destruction.

That's the kind of world apparently desired by the global warming
Chicken Littles. It seems they are prepared to do anything to
achieve it. Case in point is an outrageous letter to ExxonMobil
Chairman Rex Tillerson on October 27, 2006. The letter was
sent by two United States Senators, Olympia Snowe (R-MA),
and Jay Rockefeller (D-WV).

The letter derides Exxon for helping to fund global warming
"deniers," (a term the global warming crowd is using more and
more these days to try to draw a parallel with those who deny
the Holocaust). Said the letter, "We are convinced that
ExxonMobil's longstanding support of a sall cadre of global
climate change skeptics, and those skeptics access to and
influence on government policymakers, have made it
increasingly difficult for the United States to demonstrate
the moral clarity it needs across all facets of its diplomacy."

The letter goes on to say, "ExxonMobil and its partners in
denial have manufactured controversy, sown doubt, and
impeded progress with strategies all-too reminiscent of
those used by the tobacco industry for so many years."
The mention of the tobacco industry is not just a randomly
chosen analogy. It's a heavy-handed threat that Exxon
could face the same massive government attack on its
very existence if it doesn't play ball. Threats of wind fall
profits taxes and increased regulations being just a
couple of the weapons in the government's arsenal.

The letter concludes, saying, "We would recommend
that ExxonMobil publicly acknowledge both the reality
of climate change and the role of humans in causing
or exacerbating it. Second, ExxonMobil should
repudiate its climate change denial campaign..."

As incredible as the letter may seem to free thinkers
and Constitutionalists, one must pause to understand
the "new think" being foisted on our society. In the
August, 2006 issue of The DeWeese Report,
(Vol.12, Issue 7), I reported on the root of the new
edicts on thinking, called "globally acceptable truth."
This is not just an Ivory Tower intellectual exercise.
Those who practice it believe the only way we can
have a well-ordered society is for everyone to think
and act in unison. Those who break the rules and
think for themselves or take action contrary to the
"consensus" are simply causing havoc on all of
their well-laid plans.

Again, as I reported in August, this incredible idea
is not just the silly ravings of a few lunatics. It is
being accepted as the proper focus for major policy
matters as they emanate from Congress and are
parroted by the news media. The main source of
such thinking seems to come from the Eden Institute,
operating out of New York and with close ties
to the UN.

The official use of globally acceptable truth is best
described in a letter to the Eden Institute from
Robert Muller, Assistant Secretary General
of the UN. He wrote, "I am referring to the need
to establish a body of objective, globally acceptable
information to serve as a foundation for global
education...Its (Eden Project) formula for
identifying universally acceptable objective data
is truly unique. It achieves this distinction by
establishing a global standard for inquiry."
Translation: We will decide what is truth and
all new information or scientific discovery will be
judged on whether it matches this "globally
acceptable" truth.

The last time human kind was strapped into such
a mental straight jacket was during the Inquisition
of the Dark Ages. The period was called the Dark
Ages because it was an era of ignorance, superstition
and social chaos and repression. Anyone caught
questioning the doctrine or power of the church
was labeled a heretic and found his or her way to
the rack or into the middle of a fire while tied to a
stake. The church, of course, was practicing its
own brand of globally acceptable truth.

Today, the new heretics to the religion of global
warming are those who question whether scientific f
acts support the dire warnings that are screaming
from the newspaper headlines and from environmental
groups' press releases. In fact, there is no better
example for the practice of globally acceptable truth
than the global warming crowd.

The letter to ExxonMobile from Rockefeller and Snowe
is but one example of the dire tactics being used to
stifle any debate on the subject. Just recently, the
Attorney General of California filed suit against the
world's three biggest care manufacturers for their
complicity in creating CO2 emissions. As part
of the discovery for the suit, the Attorney General
demanded copies of any correspondence between
the automakers and so-called "skeptics" of climate
change. Message: you can't even talk to these
people! 2006 has seen the church of global warming
go into near panic at any sign of heretical behavior.

It's absolutely incredible to see such panic,
considering the global warming mantra is near
universal. There are over 12,000 environmental
groups in the country controlling over $20 billion
in assets, all unified in spreading the climate change
gospel. On top of their vast holdings, many of those
same groups receive federal grants for "studies"
and "reports" on their climate change findings.
More grants, in the billions of dollars, are going
to scientists willing to join the church and help
substantiate the mantra in their "research."

Added to that substantial fire power is a willing
news media which offers magazine cover photos of
melting ice caps; and the efforts of the movie
and television industry which lets no opportunity
get by without some reference to global warming.
Al Gore's own documentary has been in
theaters around the nation for months. He is
the guest on talk shows nearly every week.

The global warming message is literally everywhere.
It indoctrinates our children in the classroom. It flows
from the advertising messages of corporations, in
their corporate social responsible ad to sell their
environmentally-responsible products (for which
research and development was probably paid for
with federal tax dollars).

Huge numbers of Hollywood stars and international
political leaders have endorsed the mantra of the
church of global warming. Billions and billions of
dollars are being spent to influence literally every corner
of the earth to accept global warming as a fact.

Countering this massive onslaught of globally
acceptable climate change "truth" is a tiny,
dedicated band of scientists, political leaders
and non-profits that are seeking the real "truth."
Their assets are literally in the low millions of
dollars - simply a drop in the bucket when
compared to the war chest of the climate
change church.

They don't have the medias attention. They don't
have the ability to issue massive grants. Hollywood
certainly isn't making movies to promote the "skeptics"
point of view. And the federal government isn't
allowing the contrary opinions in many classrooms.

So, with so much incredible fire power covering every
possible exit, one must ask the logical question:
why are the climate change crowd so scared of a
few renegade groups and their measly few
million dollars? The fact is, the "skeptics" are
having such an impact on the debate because
they are telling the truth. The Church of
Global Warming is wrong!

As George Orwell once wrote: "In a time of universal deceit, telling
the truth is a revolutionary act." There is no greater hero in the
revolution for climate change truth than Senator James Inhofe
(R-OK), Chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works
Committee. He has truly demonstrated the power one honest
individual can wield.

Earlier this year (2006) Sen. Inhofe gave two explosive speeches
on the floor of the Senate in which he attacked and exposed the
unfounded claims and scare tactics being employed by the Global
Warming crowd. The speeches were literally unprecedented in
the decades-long climate change debate. And their effect was
like a lightening bolt. Almost immediately some scientists began
coming out of hiding to side with the Senator.

On December 6th, just as the Rockefeller/Snowe letter was being
exposed across the Internet, Inhofe held a hearing on Capitol Hill
exposing the "alarmist media." Said Inhofe, "Rather than focus
on the hard science of global warming, the media has instead
become advocates for hyping scientifically unfounded climate
alarmism." His attacks have already forced 60 Minutes, CNN
and other major media to at least give lip service to the "skeptic"

point of view. More importantly, the Senator's efforts are putting
the Global Warming crowd into near cardiac arrest.

It is important to not that the so-called "Skeptics" include
Dr. Daniel Schrag of Harvard; Claude Allegre, one of the most
decorated French geophysicists; Dr. Richard Lindzen, professor
of Atmospheric Sciences, MIT; Dr. Patrick Michaels, University
of Virginia: Dr. Fred Singer; Professor Bob Carter, geologist at
James Cook University, Australia; 85 scientists and climate
experts who signed the 1995 Leipzeg Declaration which called
drastic climate controls "ill-advised, lacking credible support
from the underlying science; 17,000 scientists and leaders
involved in climate study who signed a petition issued by the
Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying there is no
evidence green house gasses cause global warming; and the
4,000 scientists and leaders from around the world, including
70 Nobel Prize winners, who signed the Heidelberg Appeal
calling greenhouse global warming theories "highly uncertainly
scientific theories."

These are but a few of the highly qualified "skeptics" deride by
Jay Rockefeller, Olympia Snowe and Al Gore whom, they say,
should not be given a voice on the issue.

There are lots of lies surrounding the Global Warming mantra.
The biggest one claims there is "consensus" among scientists
that human-caused global warming is a fact. There is no such
consensus. Human survival demands that we listen to the
"Skeptics" before they are burned at the stake by suppositious
brutes like Jay Rockefeller and Olympia Snowe.

© 2006 American Policy Center

Posted by:
Vicegerent
FirstPrinciples
2006-12-21 22:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.

Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.

Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
--
The4thWiseMan
penny
2006-12-22 01:34:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.

The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,

Penny
Vicegerent
2006-12-22 01:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by penny
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Penny
And, Penny, your proof that Exxon is 'spewing something'
that is causing global warming is?

What's your answer for the farmers using petroleum
fueled tractors and combines to plant, nurture and harvest
the food that you consume? What about the trucks that
deliver your food, clothing and means of providing shelter?

Did you drive your SUV today?
Are the emission controls not working?
Have you farted today? If so, how much methane
did you add to the greenhouse gases supposedly
destroying Planet Earth?

Vicegerent
Malcolm
2006-12-22 03:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
And, Penny, your proof that Exxon is 'spewing something'
that is causing global warming is?
They are known for their funding of the global warming denial movement.



Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial

Read the letter in full here (pdf)
David Adam, environment correspondent
Wednesday September 20, 2006

Guardian
Britain's leading scientists have challenged the US oil company ExxonMobil to
stop funding groups that attempt to undermine the scientific consensus on
climate change.

In an unprecedented step, the Royal Society, Britain's premier scientific
academy, has written to the oil giant to demand that the company withdraws
support for dozens of groups that have "misrepresented the science of climate
change by outright denial of the evidence".

The scientists also strongly criticise the company's public statements on
global warming, which they describe as "inaccurate and misleading".

In a letter earlier this month to Esso, the UK arm of ExxonMobil, the Royal
Society cites its own survey which found that ExxonMobil last year distributed
$2.9m to 39 groups that the society says misrepresent the science of climate
change.

These include the International Policy Network, a thinktank with its HQ in
London, and the George C Marshall Institute, which is based in Washington DC.
In 2004, the institute jointly published a report with the UK group the
Scientific Alliance which claimed that global temperature rises were not
related to rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere.

"There is not a robust scientific basis for drawing definitive and objective
conclusions about the effect of human influence on future climate," it said.

In the letter, Bob Ward of the Royal Society writes: "At our meeting in July
... you indicated that ExxonMobil would not be providing any further funding to
these organisations. I would be grateful if you could let me know when
ExxonMobil plans to carry out this pledge."

The letter, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, adds: "I would
be grateful if you could let me know which organisations in the UK and other
European countries have been receiving funding so that I can work out which of
these have been similarly providing inaccurate and misleading information to
the public."

This is the first time the society has written to a company to challenge its
activities. The move reflects mounting concern about the activities of lobby
groups that try to undermine the overwhelming scientific evidence that
emissions are linked to climate change.

The groups, such as the US Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI), whose senior
figures have described global warming as a myth, are expected to launch a
renewed campaign ahead of a major new climate change report. The CEI responded
to the recent release of Al Gore's climate change film, An Inconvenient Truth,
with adverts that welcomed increased carbon dioxide pollution.

The latest report from the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC),
due to be published in February, is expected to say that climate change could
drive the Earth's temperatures higher than previously predicted.

Mr Ward said: "It is now more crucial than ever that we have a debate which is
properly informed by the science. For people to be still producing information
that misleads people about climate change is unhelpful. The next IPCC report
should give people the final push that they need to take action and we can't
have people trying to undermine it."

The Royal Society letter also takes issue with ExxonMobil's own presentation of
climate science. It strongly criticises the company's "corporate citizenship
reports", which claim that "gaps in the scientific basis" make it very
difficult to blame climate change on human activity. The letter says: "These
statements are not consistent with the scientific literature. It is very
difficult to reconcile the misrepresentations of climate change science in
these documents with ExxonMobil's claim to be an industry leader."

Environmentalists regard ExxonMobil as one of the least progressive oil
companies because, unlike competitors such as BP and Shell, it has not invested
heavily in alternative energy sources.

ExxonMobil said: "We can confirm that recently we received a letter from the
Royal Society on the topic of climate change. Amongst other topics our
Tomorrow's Energy and Corporate Citizenship reports explain our views openly
and honestly on climate change. We would refute any suggestion that our reports
are inaccurate or misleading." A spokesman added that ExxonMobil stopped
funding the Competitive Enterprise Institute this year.

Recent research has made scientists more confident that recent warming is man-
made, a finding endorsed by scientific academies across the world, including in
the US, China and Brazil.

The Royal Society's move emerged as Chris Rapley, director of the British
Antarctic Survey, warned that the polar ice caps were breaking up at a faster
rate than glaciologists thought possible, with profound consequences for global
sea levels. Professor Rapley said the change was almost certainly down to
global warming. "It's like opening a window and seeing what's going on and the
message is that it's worse than we thought," he said.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian News and Media Limited 2006
SaPeIsMa
2006-12-22 02:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Very few people are actually "denying" that wether there is or not global
warming
The only issue is what are the more important cause of it
Ironicaly the same crowd that was bleating about a "new ice age" 20+ years
ago, is now bleating about global warming
Makes you realize that there will always be a bunch of "Chicken Littles" to
run around a shout that
"The Sky is falling, the sky is falling..."
Peter White
2006-12-22 02:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Very few people are actually "denying" that wether there is or not global
warming
Then you go on to deny global warming ...... you like being part of the
'very few'.
Congratulations you got guts, no fuckin' brains but lots of guts
Too fuckin' stupid to know you're killing the rest of us even if
you don't give a fuck about your own miserable existence.
Post by SaPeIsMa
The only issue is what are the more important cause of it
Ironicaly the same crowd that was bleating about a "new ice age" 20+ years
ago, is now bleating about global warming
Makes you realize that there will always be a bunch of "Chicken Littles" to
run around a shout that
"The Sky is falling, the sky is falling..."
Vicegerent
2006-12-22 03:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter White
Very few people are actually "denying" that whether there is
or not global warming
Then you go on to deny global warming ...... you like being part of the
'very few'.
Congratulations you got guts, no fuckin' brains but lots of guts
Too fuckin' stupid to know you're killing the rest of us even if
you don't give a fuck about your own miserable existence.
I suspect there are very few (maybe some Inuit on Baffin
Island) who do not accept that there is evidence of
global warming.

The question is: "What is causing the global warming?"

Seems to me that an active sun and multiple volcanoes
would be much more suspect than mankind's petroleum
fuel burning machines. For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.

Vicegerent
Malcolm
2006-12-22 03:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
More debunked bull crap.

FICTION:

"Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines spewed forth more than a
thousand times the amount of ozone-depleting chemicals in one
eruption than all the fluorocarbons manufactured by wicked,
diabolical, and insensitive corporations in history. . . . Conclusion:
mankind can't possibly equal the output of even one eruption from
Pinatubo, much less billion years' worth, so how can we destroy
ozone?" 4/

SCIENTIFIC FACT:

Limbaugh's numbers are completely off-base. Volcanoes emit two
sorts of ozone-depleting compounds. One is hydrochloric acid, but
the amount of this chemical in the stratosphere, measured before
and after Pinatubo's eruption in 1991, was found to be largely
unchanged. 5/

The other ozone-depleting chemical emitted by Pinatubo, sulfur
dioxide, is converted in the stratosphere into tiny particles which,
acting in combination with man-made chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's),
temporarily increased the rate of ozone depletion by several
percentage points during 1992 and 1993. 6/ Nevertheless, nearly
all the particles resulting from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption have
already washed out of the atmosphere, unlike CFC's, which remain
in the stratosphere for as long as a century. 7/

Cumulatively speaking, Pinatubo's destructive effect on the ozone
layer has been about fifty times less than that of CFC's, rather than
a thousand times greater, as Limbaugh claims. Thus, his estimate
is off by a factor of fifty thousand.
Malcolm
2006-12-22 03:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
Post by Vicegerent
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
More debunked bull crap.
"Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines spewed forth more than a
thousand times the amount of ozone-depleting chemicals in one
eruption than all the fluorocarbons manufactured by wicked,
mankind can't possibly equal the output of even one eruption from
Pinatubo, much less billion years' worth, so how can we destroy
ozone?" 4/
Limbaugh's numbers are completely off-base. Volcanoes emit two
sorts of ozone-depleting compounds. One is hydrochloric acid, but
the amount of this chemical in the stratosphere, measured before
and after Pinatubo's eruption in 1991, was found to be largely
unchanged. 5/
The other ozone-depleting chemical emitted by Pinatubo, sulfur
dioxide, is converted in the stratosphere into tiny particles which,
acting in combination with man-made chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's),
temporarily increased the rate of ozone depletion by several
percentage points during 1992 and 1993. 6/ Nevertheless, nearly
all the particles resulting from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption have
already washed out of the atmosphere, unlike CFC's, which remain
in the stratosphere for as long as a century. 7/
Cumulatively speaking, Pinatubo's destructive effect on the ozone
layer has been about fifty times less than that of CFC's, rather than
a thousand times greater, as Limbaugh claims. Thus, his estimate
is off by a factor of fifty thousand.
Mount Pinatubo wasn't about CO2 contributions at all, it was about Ozone
depletion and atmospheric particulates.

You should try doing a little reading before you start babbling like a fool.
Nobody
2006-12-22 21:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
Post by Vicegerent
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
More debunked bull crap.
"Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines spewed forth more than a
thousand times the amount of ozone-depleting chemicals in one
eruption than all the fluorocarbons manufactured by wicked,
diabolical, and insensitive corporations in history. . . .
Conclusion: mankind can't possibly equal the output of even one
eruption from Pinatubo, much less billion years' worth, so how can
we destroy ozone?" 4/
Limbaugh's numbers are completely off-base. Volcanoes emit two
sorts of ozone-depleting compounds. One is hydrochloric acid, but
the amount of this chemical in the stratosphere, measured before
and after Pinatubo's eruption in 1991, was found to be largely
unchanged. 5/
The other ozone-depleting chemical emitted by Pinatubo, sulfur
dioxide, is converted in the stratosphere into tiny particles
which, acting in combination with man-made chlorofluorocarbons
(CFC's), temporarily increased the rate of ozone depletion by
several percentage points during 1992 and 1993. 6/ Nevertheless,
nearly all the particles resulting from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption
have already washed out of the atmosphere, unlike CFC's, which
remain in the stratosphere for as long as a century. 7/
Cumulatively speaking, Pinatubo's destructive effect on the ozone
layer has been about fifty times less than that of CFC's, rather
than a thousand times greater, as Limbaugh claims. Thus, his
estimate is off by a factor of fifty thousand.
Malcolm, you are replying to Eldon Warman AKA Vicegerent. He is a
well known kook in several groups. You can see him do his work
anytime in can.taxes. Pretty funny stuff.
n***@gmail.com
2006-12-22 04:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
Post by Peter White
Very few people are actually "denying" that whether there is
or not global warming
Then you go on to deny global warming ...... you like being part of the
'very few'.
Congratulations you got guts, no fuckin' brains but lots of guts
Too fuckin' stupid to know you're killing the rest of us even if
you don't give a fuck about your own miserable existence.
I suspect there are very few (maybe some Inuit on Baffin
Island) who do not accept that there is evidence of
global warming.
The question is: "What is causing the global warming?"
Seems to me that an active sun
Which is currently at the nadir of the Schwabe cycle, which is only
0.1% peak to peak. We are still on an upswing from the Mauner Minimum
(mid 1600s to early 1700s), but there is a significant diversion
between solar energy and temperature in the 80's.
Post by Vicegerent
From "Do Models Underestimate the Solar Contribution to Recent Climate
Change?", Journal of Climate, Vol 16, Dec 15, 2003

Whereas we estimate that greenhouse warming is likely to have caused
more
warming than observed during 1950-99, with greenhouse gas warming
offset by cooling from sulfate aerosols, our best estimate is that
warming from solar forcing is 16% and 36% of the greenhouse warming
with the LBB and HS reconstructions, respectively
Post by Vicegerent
and multiple volcanoes
would be much more suspect than mankind's petroleum
fuel burning machines.
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago
Please cite. AFAIK, the last time Pinatubo went off about 15 years
ago...not "a few".
Post by Vicegerent
spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
Hmm....CO2 sourced to volcanoes, yearly: 200+/- 55 million tons
CO2 sourced to humans, yearly: about 22 billion tons of carbon (so add
oxygen weight).
human to volcano ratio: about 150:1.

Source: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html
(which references it's sources).
Peter White
2006-12-22 04:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Vicegerent
Post by Peter White
Very few people are actually "denying" that whether there is
or not global warming
Then you go on to deny global warming ...... you like being part of the
'very few'.
Congratulations you got guts, no fuckin' brains but lots of guts
Too fuckin' stupid to know you're killing the rest of us even if
you don't give a fuck about your own miserable existence.
I suspect there are very few (maybe some Inuit on Baffin
Island) who do not accept that there is evidence of
global warming.
The question is: "What is causing the global warming?"
Seems to me that an active sun
Which is currently at the nadir of the Schwabe cycle, which is only
0.1% peak to peak. We are still on an upswing from the Mauner Minimum
(mid 1600s to early 1700s), but there is a significant diversion
between solar energy and temperature in the 80's.
Post by Vicegerent
From "Do Models Underestimate the Solar Contribution to Recent Climate
Change?", Journal of Climate, Vol 16, Dec 15, 2003
Whereas we estimate that greenhouse warming is likely to have caused
more
warming than observed during 1950-99, with greenhouse gas warming
offset by cooling from sulfate aerosols, our best estimate is that
warming from solar forcing is 16% and 36% of the greenhouse warming
with the LBB and HS reconstructions, respectively
Post by Vicegerent
and multiple volcanoes
would be much more suspect than mankind's petroleum
fuel burning machines.
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago
Please cite. AFAIK, the last time Pinatubo went off about 15 years
ago...not "a few".
Post by Vicegerent
spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
Hmm....CO2 sourced to volcanoes, yearly: 200+/- 55 million tons
CO2 sourced to humans, yearly: about 22 billion tons of carbon (so add
oxygen weight).
human to volcano ratio: about 150:1.
Source: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html
(which references it's sources).
Great data, I suspect you just ended another thread.
These type fold their tents then show up later with a new name, to get
bloodied yet again.
It would b e good slapstick if what is at stake were not so crucial.
n***@gmail.com
2006-12-22 23:47:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter White
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Vicegerent
Post by Peter White
Very few people are actually "denying" that whether there is
or not global warming
Then you go on to deny global warming ...... you like being part of the
'very few'.
Congratulations you got guts, no fuckin' brains but lots of guts
Too fuckin' stupid to know you're killing the rest of us even if
you don't give a fuck about your own miserable existence.
I suspect there are very few (maybe some Inuit on Baffin
Island) who do not accept that there is evidence of
global warming.
The question is: "What is causing the global warming?"
Seems to me that an active sun
Which is currently at the nadir of the Schwabe cycle, which is only
0.1% peak to peak. We are still on an upswing from the Mauner Minimum
(mid 1600s to early 1700s), but there is a significant diversion
between solar energy and temperature in the 80's.
Post by Vicegerent
From "Do Models Underestimate the Solar Contribution to Recent Climate
Change?", Journal of Climate, Vol 16, Dec 15, 2003
Whereas we estimate that greenhouse warming is likely to have caused
more
warming than observed during 1950-99, with greenhouse gas warming
offset by cooling from sulfate aerosols, our best estimate is that
warming from solar forcing is 16% and 36% of the greenhouse warming
with the LBB and HS reconstructions, respectively
Post by Vicegerent
and multiple volcanoes
would be much more suspect than mankind's petroleum
fuel burning machines.
For instance, the estimates are that
the Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in the Philippines a few
years ago
Please cite. AFAIK, the last time Pinatubo went off about 15 years
ago...not "a few".
Post by Vicegerent
spewed out more greenhouse gases than mankind
has to be emitted since our existence on planet Earth.
Hmm....CO2 sourced to volcanoes, yearly: 200+/- 55 million tons
CO2 sourced to humans, yearly: about 22 billion tons of carbon (so add
oxygen weight).
human to volcano ratio: about 150:1.
Source: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html
(which references it's sources).
Great data, I suspect you just ended another thread.
I occasionally have that effect.
Post by Peter White
These type fold their tents then show up later with a new name, to get
bloodied yet again.
Using the same arguments from the same people, like nothing ever
happend. I don't get it.
Post by Peter White
It would b e good slapstick if what is at stake were not so crucial.
More like whack-a-mole...
Canuck57
2006-12-22 02:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Very few people are actually "denying" that wether there is or not global
warming
The only issue is what are the more important cause of it
Ironicaly the same crowd that was bleating about a "new ice age" 20+ years
ago, is now bleating about global warming
Makes you realize that there will always be a bunch of "Chicken Littles"
to run around a shout that
"The Sky is falling, the sky is falling..."
The part everyone seems to miss is it makes more of the planet habitable.
SaPeIsMa
2006-12-24 16:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Canuck57
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for
buy
Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Very few people are actually "denying" that wether there is or not global
warming
The only issue is what are the more important cause of it
Ironicaly the same crowd that was bleating about a "new ice age" 20+
years ago, is now bleating about global warming
Makes you realize that there will always be a bunch of "Chicken Littles"
to run around a shout that
"The Sky is falling, the sky is falling..."
The part everyone seems to miss is it makes more of the planet habitable.
That can be argued, since desert areas will become more deserted.
But the Chicken Littles are far too busy running around crying "the sky is
falling" to actually stop and THINK..
That's what makes them "Chiken Littles" after all
Their non-thinking non-informed reaction to run around and cry dire
warnings.
n***@gmail.com
2006-12-22 03:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Very few people are actually "denying" that wether there is or not global
warming
The only issue is what are the more important cause of it
Ironicaly the same crowd that was bleating about a "new ice age" 20+ years
ago, is now bleating about global warming
Go ahead and cite then. Peer reviewed journals, not Newsweek. And
while some people were predicting a coming ice age, they expected it to
arrive in about 20 millenia.

There was also talk about cooling as a result of arasols in the
atmosphere blocking incoming light, but we've cleaned up our particulat
emissions since then.
Post by SaPeIsMa
From the 1975 NAS paper, ISBN:0-309-02323-8
Unfortunately, we do not have a good quantitative understanding of our
climate machine and what determines it's course. Without this
fundamental understanding, it does not seem possible to predict
climate-neither in short-term variations nor in any in its larger
long-term changes.

Our understanding has evolved a bit in the past 30ish years...or do you
disagree with evolution as well?
Post by SaPeIsMa
Makes you realize that there will always be a bunch of "Chicken Littles" to
run around a shout that
"The Sky is falling, the sky is falling..."
There are also those who benefit from the status quo, and will spend
enormous effort to discredit those who say there must be change. Think
"tobacco".
Malcolm
2006-12-22 04:02:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@gmail.com
There are also those who benefit from the status quo, and will spend
enormous effort to discredit those who say there must be change. Think
"tobacco".
It's not surprising that many of the same bought-and-paid for hacks who are
high in profile in the Global Warming denial movement were also doing the same
job for the tobacco companies years ago.

The guy who runs www.junkscience.com is one of them.
SaPeIsMa
2006-12-24 16:27:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
Post by n***@gmail.com
There are also those who benefit from the status quo, and will spend
enormous effort to discredit those who say there must be change. Think
"tobacco".
It's not surprising that many of the same bought-and-paid for hacks who are
high in profile in the Global Warming denial movement were also doing the same
job for the tobacco companies years ago.
The guy who runs www.junkscience.com is one of them.
That's an UNSUPPORTED claim
Where's the proof.
Carl Nisarel
2006-12-24 15:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by Malcolm
The guy who runs www.junkscience.com is one of them.
That's an UNSUPPORTED claim
http://timlambert.org/category/science/milloy/

http://www.johnquiggin.com/archives/001329.html
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Canuck57
2006-12-22 02:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Penny
So practice what you preach. Don't buy any plastics made from hydrocarbons,
don't drive, don't heat your home. Make sure everything you eat is not in
plastic. Keep the lights out and turn off the PC -- it pollutes.

Then the Exxon, Imperial Oil, Petro Canada and others will not be so rich.
Peter White
2006-12-22 03:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Canuck57
Post by penny
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:00:16 GMT, FirstPrinciples
Post by FirstPrinciples
Post by Vicegerent
The Global Warming Inquisition and the Suppression of "Skeptic" Heresy
November 14, 2006 By Tom DeWeese
http://www.americanpolicy.org
It's not a matter of free speach. It's a matter of Exxon BUYING the services of
unscrupulous scientists to spread lies so that Exxon can continue to keep
destroying the environment unimpeeded.
Exxon has to be one of the worst corporations on the planet, and the article is
just more propaganda.
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
The article submitted drags out the usual nay-sayer
hoaxes which were shown to be hoaxes years ago,
Penny
So practice what you preach. Don't buy any plastics made from hydrocarbons,
don't drive, don't heat your home. Make sure everything you eat is not in
plastic. Keep the lights out and
turn off the PC -- it pollutes.

But you can filter out Scott ......

I don't think that will work with Pearson, you may have to distill him.
Post by Canuck57
Then the Exxon, Imperial Oil, Petro Canada and others will not be so rich.
Malcolm
2006-12-22 03:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by penny
Post by FirstPrinciples
Tom DeWeese is %51 percent nutjob and the rest is bought and paid for buy Exxon,
etc..
These global warming naysayers don't seem to realize they are
supporting the vested interests of a big fossil fuel emitter , like
ExxonMobil, against a ton of ongoing peer-reviewed evidence from
scientists from every country in this world.
DeWeese's petition claims are misleading as not a single one of them are as
recent as 8 years-ago and many of them are dated in the mid to early 1990s.
The 17,000 "scientists" (published 1998)turned out to be a fraud. The petition
had already been discredited, after it was found not to have been organised by
climate scientists and to have misled recipients into thinking it came from
America's respected National Academy of Sciences, which it did not. Signatories
included fictional TV characters.

DeWeese is a nutjob whose rehashing outdated skepticisms as if they were
current and applicable to our understanding of the problem as it exists today.

Much has happened in the field of Climate Science and understanding global
warming since those "petitions" he cites were signed.
Roedy Green
2006-12-22 03:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
Imagine living in a world where no one is allowed to think
independent thoughts or take independent actions.
You are permitted to have your own private relativity theory, but you
should not go posting it as if it were accepted science, masquerading
knowing what you are doing if you have no mathematical background.
That is what this author is effectively doing. He is a child
lecturing to adults about sex.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
Priorities: Prevent global climate destabilisation. End both wars. Prepare for oil shortages.
Vicegerent
2006-12-23 02:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roedy Green
Post by Vicegerent
Imagine living in a world where no one is allowed to think
independent thoughts or take independent actions.
You are permitted to have your own private relativity theory, but you
should not go posting it as if it were accepted science, masquerading
knowing what you are doing if you have no mathematical background.
That is what this author is effectively doing. He is a child
lecturing to adults about sex.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
Priorities: Prevent global climate destabilisation. End both wars.
Prepare for oil shortages.
Roedy, Were you looking into the mirror when you wrote the above
comments?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Global Warming: The Worst of All Environmental Scares
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=1439
by Sen. James Inhofe
Posted Aug 06, 2003
The following excerpts are from a speech by Sen. Inhofe,
Chairman of the Committee On Environment and Public
Works, delivered on the floor of the U.S. Senate on
July 28, 2003.

Excerpt: For the whole speech, go to the above website:

Quote:
"In a recent letter to me concerning the next EPA administrator,
two senators wrote that "the pressing problem of global warming"
is now an "established scientific fact," and demanded that the
new administrator commit to addressing it.

With all due respect, this statement is baseless, for several reasons.
As I outlined in detail above, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor
of those who don't see global warming posing grave harm to the
planet and who don't think human beings have significant influence
on the climate system.

This leads to another question: why would this body subject the
United States to Kyoto-like measures that have no environmental
benefits and cause serious harm to the economy? There are several
pieces of legislation, including several that have been referred to
my committee, that effectively implement Kyoto. From a cursory
read of Senate politics, it is my understanding that some of these
bills enjoy more than a modicum of support.

I urge my colleagues to reject them, and follow the science to the
facts. Reject approaches designed not to solve an environmental
problem, but to satisfy the ever-growing demand of environmental
groups for money and power and other extremists who simply
don't like capitalism, free-markets, and freedom.

Climate alarmists see an opportunity here to tax the American people.
Consider a July 11 op-ed by J.W. Anderson in the Washington Post.
In it, Anderson, a former editorial writer for the Post and now a
journalist in residence with Resources for the Future, concedes
that climate science still confronts uncertainties.

But his solution is a fuel tax to prepare for a potentially
catastrophic future. Based on the case I've outlined today,
such a course of action fits a particular ideological agenda,
yet is entirely unwarranted.

It is my fervent hope that Congress will reject prophets of doom who
peddle propaganda masquerading as science in the name of saving
the planet from catastrophic disaster. I urge my colleagues to put
stock in scientists who rely on the best, most objective scientific
data and reject fear as a motivating basis for making public policy
decisions.

Let me be very clear: alarmists are attempting to enact an agenda
of energy suppression that is inconsistent with American values
of freedom, prosperity, and environmental progress. Unquote

Vicegerent
Nobody
2006-12-23 02:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Global Warming: The Worst of All Environmental Scares
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=1439
by Sen. James Inhofe
Posted Aug 06, 2003
The following excerpts are from a speech by Sen. Inhofe,
Chairman of the Committee On Environment and Public
Works, delivered on the floor of the U.S. Senate on
July 28, 2003.
<snip another Eldon Warman cut and paste>
Post by Vicegerent
Let me be very clear: alarmists are attempting to enact an agenda
of energy suppression that is inconsistent with American values
of freedom, prosperity, and environmental progress. Unquote
Vicegerent
Eldon, you believe that you don't have to pay taxes in Canada. You
are an idiot, who do you think will believe you about this issue when
you are a confirmed kook in every other group you post to?
Vicegerent
2006-12-23 17:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nobody
Eldon, you believe that you don't have to pay taxes
in Canada. You are an idiot, who do you think will
believe you about this issue when you are a
confirmed kook in every other group you post to?
Not true. ELDON WARMAN, a name owned by the CROWN
in right of NEW BRUNSWICK, is a 'taxpayer';
as, it is a slave of the CROWN.

However, the free will adult man whom the CROWN
deceitfully attached this name to as the child,
whose parents called him Eldon; and, whom the
CROWN deceitfully expects that the free will adult
man will ignorantly accept as being 'one and the
same' as himself. However, that free will adult
man has not done so, and thus, is NOT
a 'taxpayer'.

So, that leaves the 'entity', ELDON WARMAN,
as a fictional 'agent in commerce' for the free
will man commonly called Eldon of the Warman
family to deal in all matters relating to the
counterfiet Canadian money system.

And, since an agent only receives a 'fee' for
services, there is nothing to suggest that the
agent has income exceeding the basic exemption
allowed in the Income Tax Regulations.

Therefore, that is why either ELDON WARMAN,
and certainly not the man commonly called
Eldon of the Warman family need pay any
income tax in Canada.

Check out the logic of this discovery of the
basis of the income tax extortion racket here,
and you will find that it is very credible, just
as is my reported global warming CAUSE hoax:
http://kanata.250free.com/filingT1.htm

And, who is a NOBODY to try and convince
anyone about the 'credibility' of anything?

Vicegerent
Nobody
2006-12-23 18:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
Post by Nobody
Eldon, you believe that you don't have to pay taxes
in Canada. You are an idiot, who do you think will
believe you about this issue when you are a
confirmed kook in every other group you post to?
Not true. ELDON WARMAN, a name owned by the CROWN
in right of NEW BRUNSWICK, is a 'taxpayer';
as, it is a slave of the CROWN.
Eldon Warman is YOUR name moron. It is the name your pension cheques
come to. It is the name you paid your taxes under and the name to
which your assault charges were laid. Vicegerent is the posting
handle you started using after the Human Right Tribunal spanked you
very hard and removed your messages from the archive. You are the
only one that you are fooling with your BS as usual.

<snipped Eldon's usual detax rant>
Post by Vicegerent
And, who is a NOBODY to try and convince
anyone about the 'credibility' of anything?
Eldon Warman
Vicegerent
2006-12-23 20:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nobody
Post by Vicegerent
Post by Nobody
Eldon, you believe that you don't have to pay taxes
in Canada. You are an idiot, who do you think will
believe you about this issue when you are a
confirmed kook in every other group you post to?
Not true. ELDON WARMAN, a name owned by the CROWN
in right of NEW BRUNSWICK, is a 'taxpayer';
as, it is a slave of the CROWN.
Eldon Warman is YOUR name moron. It is the name your pension cheques
come to. It is the name you paid your taxes under and the name to
which your assault charges were laid. Vicegerent is the posting
handle you started using after the Human Right Tribunal spanked you
very hard and removed your messages from the archive. You are the
only one that you are fooling with your BS as usual.
You can believe anything you wish regarding whom the
poster, Vicegerent may be. It seems that you believe
in ghosts, fairies, goblins, and cookie monsters, so what's new.

And thank you for the exposition in your post showing that
the free will man commonly called Eldon had imposed
upon him a fiction name called ELDON WARMAN.
Dummy! Those functions are what the 'legal identity'/
agent in commerce supposed to do as its agent duties.

I am not aware that the Human Rights Tribunal did
anything to the free will man called Eldon, or to the
legal identity, ELDON WARMAN. Obviously, it was
GOOGLE, an agency of the 'dark forces', that
removed forum archives - not the HRT.

Did you not read this?

"[1] I have reviewed the submissions from the
Complainant and the Commission. I naturally
disagree with the suggestion that my request
for further submissions on the application for
a penalty under s. 54(1)(c) is untoward."

"[7] There is no need to continue the discussion.
The Complainant and the Commission have informed
me that they wish to abandon their request for a
penalty under the section. That is their choice to make.
There are no outstanding issues and the case is closed."

"Signed by"
Dr. Paul Groarke
OTTAWA, Ontario
November 17, 2005

http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/search/view_html.asp?doid=673&lg=_e&isruling=0

Vicegerent
Bob Roberts
2006-12-23 21:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/search/view_html.asp?doid=673&lg=_e&isruling=0
It's good of you to provide a link

I'm suspicious of "cut and paste" quotations.
Nobody
2006-12-23 21:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/search/view_html.asp?doid=673&lg=_e&isru
ling=0
http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/search/view_html.asp?doid=639
&lg=_e&isruling=0

Is the real case. The link Eldon gave is only for the monetery
penalty.

Eldon is the poster boy for stupid. There is plenty of information
about him on the internet. If you want a laugh, have a look at a
couple of these.

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/Issues/2003/0807/cover.htm
A FULL LIABILITY MAN

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2000/00/p00_0022.htm
Is about his assault on a peace officer. He tried his strawman defense
there and it didn't do any good.
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