Discussion:
Young Men Die for Old Men's Profit Ideals
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Vicegerent
2005-07-06 15:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Please answer my question! WHY ARE AMERICANS TOO
CRAVEN TO DIE FOR THEIR IDEALS YET ARE WILLING TO
LET THEIR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN, THEIR OWN
POSTERITY, DIE FOR THE IDEALS, OR LACK THEREOF,
OF OTHERS???

Not one man, or woman, who has died or been wounded
in combat since the Reveloutionary War has done so
in the defense of this Country but has done so to
promote the interests of International Bankers and
the New World Order!!

Please forward!

Billy-Joe of the Family Mauldin (Texas)

************************************************
Are Americans too craven to die for their ideals?
By Chris Satullo

07/04/05 "Philly.com" - - Some men, flawed but rising
to their moment, signed a document 229 years ago in
Philadelphia. It ended with these words: "We mutually
pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our
sacred honor."

No idle vow, that. They were rebels, and an army of imperial
power lurked nearby. Before that July was done, they might
all be captured and hanged from trees.

Their rebellion had arisen from tangled reasons, some less
admirable than others. But the men in Philadelphia arrived
at a fresh, ennobling idea for a new nation: that men were
meant to be free and that free men could govern themselves
to uphold justice and the common good. It was a breathtaking
vision.

They were willing to die for it.

Are you willing to die for the idea called the United States
of America? Are most Americans ready to die for their country?

On this patriotic weekend, most of us would blurt in reply,
"Of course."

We are lying. At best, kidding ourselves.

That is the sad message of the days that have passed since the
awful one we call 9/11.

Die for the idea called America? Many of us aren't willing even
to conserve a little gasoline. Or pay our fair share of taxes.
Or spend less than we earn.

Nor, it seems, will we accept the slightest personal risk to
defend the ideals the founders sketched in the Declaration,
then spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

Sept. 11, the instant cliché proclaimed, changed everything.

Yet few Americans, least of all our leaders, seem to grasp what
really changed on that day of fire and fear.

To defend the American idea in the face of this novel threat,
every last American must be willing to risk death rather than
let our ideals be trampled in a rush for "security." For most
of us, the risk is infinitesimal, less than we accept when we
merge onto the Schuylkill or board an airliner. But it's there.
Bravery isn't just for soldiers anymore.

Yet too many of us cower and cry to our profoundly inadequate
leaders, "Do whatever you want; just protect us!"
The propagandists call it patriotism; they call it toughness.
It is cowardice.

If we all had the guts to die for the idea we call America,
the halls of Congress would be jammed, the White House encircled,
by citizens demanding an end to the sinful violations of our
ideals: Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, and "extraordinary rendition."

They would proclaim they'd rather die at a terrorist's hand
than watch America move from "rule of law" to "arrogant outlaw."

Instead, near silence. Alibis. Self-absorbed complicity.

America must never torture. But we have.

America must never contract out its torturing to some of the
world's most brutal regimes. But we have.

America must not imprison indefinitely without evidence or
fair trial. But we have.

A beacon for the rule of law must never claim unilateral power
to thrust prisoners into a Kafkaesque world where they are
neither criminal suspect nor prisoner of war, lacking the
legal protections of either. But America does.

These are not the raving allegations of some Left Bank leftist.
These are cold facts to which honorable people in our military,
law enforcement agencies and courts have attested beyond
reasonable doubt. The offenses go beyond the photos from Abu
Ghraib, or Korans in toilets. They are even darker and more
violent.

We are not excused because some of the prisoners harmed are
brutes who mean us harm. We should be ashamed that, at Abu
Ghraib, some were innocents swept up by the chaos of a war
we started.

What matters most is that we are America. We are called to be
better than that. How can we hide behind the apologists who
mewl, "We're not as bad as Saddam, or Stalin, or Hitler"?

Those men in Philadelphia did not call us to be better than
the very worst. They called us to exemplify the best.

Yes, we were attacked. That was supposed to summon the honor,
the principles, the bravery inside us, to show what a nation
inspired by the idea of liberty and justice can do. We have
failed our founding fathers.

Americans are privileged to live inside a rare space in history
- where the ideals of the Declaration have often (not always)
preserved us from the ancient habits of tyranny and savagery.

This privilege demands from us nothing less than our lives,
our fortunes, our sacred honor.

I love my country, and the idea it stands for. I am willing to
stand for it. I am willing to die for it.

We have a right to defend and protect ourselves. I'll defend
the Afghanistan mission against its critics. I'll stand in
any airport line as long as need be or flash an ID as often
as asked to enable prudent precautions.

But I would rather have terrorists blow me to bits in an
airplane or gun me down on an escalator at King of Prussia
Mall than let a single person be tortured in the name of my
safety.

I'd rather take my chances with terror than ask brave young
Americans to protect me by serving as sitting ducks for suicide
bombers halfway around the globe. Closer to home, I'll accept
the remote risk of disaster rather than see Independence Hall
be encircled with Jersey barriers like a prison camp.

I'd rather risk death than see the idea of America embodied in
our Constitution be mocked and soiled the way George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld have done in the last four
years.

I think of the men who pledged their sacred honor so many years
ago in my city, and this is the very least I can pledge in return.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Satullo (***@phillynews.com
or 215-854-4243) is editorial page editor.

Posted by: Vicegerent
Matt Alldian
2005-07-06 19:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicegerent
Not one man, or woman, who has died or been wounded
in combat since the Reveloutionary War has done so
in the defense of this Country but has done so to
promote the interests of International Bankers and
the New World Order!!
Tell that to the familys of and US soldier that died in combat you sick
bastard.
Vicegerent
2005-07-11 14:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Alldian
Vicegerent wrote: Not one man, or woman, who has died
or been wounded in combat since the Reveloutionary War
has done so in the defense of this Country but has done
so to promote the interests of International Bankers
and the New World Order!!
Tell that to the familys of and US soldier that died in
combat you sick bastard.
Matt, I'm quite well, thank you. And, I was told that my
parents were married - and I already told those 'parents
of dead and wounded sons and daughters' what ignorant
fools they have been. They might just as well have fed
their children to the hogs.

At least, that would have made the pigs happy, rather than
let them go around the world to murder innocent people
by the thousands, as they are now doing in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

Vicegerent
Vicegerent
2005-07-13 13:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Iraqi Resistance Report for Monday, 11 July 2005
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.

05th July 44 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
06th July 41 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
07th July 42 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
08th July 42 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
09th July 40 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
10th July 49 US soldiers Killed in Iraq
11th July 48 US soldiers Killed in Iraq ...

This last number has an estimate portion ..
a hand full that are un-numbered from an attack
on a US base where all the evidence points to
some dead but local witnesses or media couldn't
get a number nailed down.

If this estimation is a little high it will
only make up for some we don't get to hear
about at all.

The over all figure below is still going to be on
the low side not the high according to Viet Nan
stats and percentages and percentages already
provided by the DoD.

This now bring the total American military killed
in Iraq to .... 10,506 Not 1900 as DoD alleges.
Please ensure every American on you list get's a
copy of this count ... we are begining to get
through.

Leaks have it that a pull out of 100,000 UK and
US troops in months. That will only leave around
70,000 targets left for the Iraqi Resistance to
take care of.

Neal

Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does
not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword
comes and takes the life of one of them, that man
will be taken away because of his sin, but I will
hold the watchman accountable for his blood."
- Eze 33:6

Posted by: Vicegerent
Vicegerent
2005-07-13 13:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Iraqi Resistance Report for Tuesday, 12 July 2005
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.

Last week ending 11th July a total of 306 US were
killed in Iraq ... this bringing the total US
killed to 10,506.

We begin the new week from:

12th July 53 US Killed in Iraq today.

This number does contain an estimate based in
the term "dozens" used by eye witnesses ...
looking at the evidence of the action on video
I'd say they were about right.

Neal

Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and
does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and
the sword comes and takes the life of one of them,
that man will be taken away because of his sin,
but I will hold the watchman accountable for his
blood." - Eze 33:6

Posted by: Vicegerent
Vicegerent
2005-07-17 14:32:35 UTC
Permalink
16 July 2005
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.

12th July 53 US Killed in Iraq
13th July 59 US Killed in Iraq
14th July 43 US Killed in Iraq
15th July 39 US Killed in Iraq
16th July 41 US Killed in Iraq ... there is a small
portion of estimate here ... I believe the estimate is
below the actual. The two coms towers would have cost
quite some judging by the response of backup.
--
Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does
not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the
sword comes and takes the life of one of them,
that man will be taken away because of his sin,
but I will hold the watchman accountable for his
blood." - Eze 33:6


Posted by: Vicegerent
Vicegerent
2005-07-19 15:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.

The 18th ending yet another week on my count lets look
again at the total American Dead in Iraq this week
ending the 18th July.

12th July 53 US Killed in Iraq
13th July 59 US Killed in Iraq
14th July 43 US Killed in Iraq
15th July 39 US Killed in Iraq
16th July 41 US Killed in Iraq
17th July 35 US Killed in Iraq.

18th July 83 US Killed in Iraq today Monday ...

There is a portion of estimate in this number because
US close off very tight when large numbers are killed.
In this event the local police were also excluded given
the impression the had something to hide. The evac
chooper was capable of carrying 35.

My count was way lower than that.

Thus based on previous outcomes of numbers vehicles
carry and US responses to attacks. The higher number
in Mondays kill could relate to the US GIs' killing
of 32 Iraqi children the day before.

THIS WEEKS TOTAL US KILLED IN IRAQ ... 353
Didn't The Resistance do well.

That now brings the total US Killed in Iraq to around
10,850 ... not 1700 like the US DoD say.

Admittedly there may be a hand full of human vegetables
that may as well be dead, but on the whole, this number
will be quite close.
--
Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not
blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes
and takes the life of one of them, that man will be
taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the
watchman accountable for his blood." - Eze 33:6
- - -
Posted by: Vicegerent
Abbot
2005-07-19 15:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Abbot)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/can.taxes/msg/77d3532fbe47cca7?hl=en&
Post by Vicegerent
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.
The 18th ending yet another week on my count lets look
again at the total American Dead in Iraq this week
ending the 18th July.
12th July 53 US Killed in Iraq
13th July 59 US Killed in Iraq
14th July 43 US Killed in Iraq
15th July 39 US Killed in Iraq
16th July 41 US Killed in Iraq
17th July 35 US Killed in Iraq.
18th July 83 US Killed in Iraq today Monday ...
There is a portion of estimate in this number because
US close off very tight when large numbers are killed.
In this event the local police were also excluded given
the impression the had something to hide. The evac
chooper was capable of carrying 35.
My count was way lower than that.
Thus based on previous outcomes of numbers vehicles
carry and US responses to attacks. The higher number
in Mondays kill could relate to the US GIs' killing
of 32 Iraqi children the day before.
THIS WEEKS TOTAL US KILLED IN IRAQ ... 353
Didn't The Resistance do well.
That now brings the total US Killed in Iraq to around
10,850 ... not 1700 like the US DoD say.
Admittedly there may be a hand full of human vegetables
that may as well be dead, but on the whole, this number
will be quite close.
--
Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html
But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not
blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes
and takes the life of one of them, that man will be
taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the
watchman accountable for his blood." - Eze 33:6
- - -
Posted by: Vicegerent
Vicegerent
2005-07-25 14:10:37 UTC
Permalink
Iraqi Resistance Report for Sunday, 24 July 2005

US employing new Winning Strategy to contain Resistance.
According to my figures the new Strategy to contain
The Iraqi Resistance is to build up piles of dead
American bodies too high for the Iraqi Resistance
to climb over.

Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.
19 July 46 US Killed in Iraq
20 July 40 US Killed in Iraq
21 July 38 US Killed in Iraq
22 July 59 US Killed in Iraq
23 July 61 US Killed in Iraq
24 July 56 US Killed in Iraq today.

--
Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the
trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life
of one of them, that man will be taken away because of his sin,
but I will hold the watchman accountable for his blood."
- Eze 33:6

- - -
Posted by: Vicegerent
Abbot
2005-07-25 14:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Abbot)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/can.taxes/browse_frm/thread/55e5a8bf285a13e2/c472cf25311c2cc3?hl=en#c472cf25311c2cc3
Post by Vicegerent
Iraqi Resistance Report for Sunday, 24 July 2005
US employing new Winning Strategy to contain Resistance.
According to my figures the new Strategy to contain
The Iraqi Resistance is to build up piles of dead
American bodies too high for the Iraqi Resistance
to climb over.
Iron and Clay Helping America Count Their Dead.
19 July 46 US Killed in Iraq
20 July 40 US Killed in Iraq
21 July 38 US Killed in Iraq
22 July 59 US Killed in Iraq
23 July 61 US Killed in Iraq
24 July 56 US Killed in Iraq today.
--
Visit my Website at ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/one_world_government.html
See my "Why Come Out" page here ...
http://iron-clay.cloudnine.net.nz/why_come_out.html
But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the
trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life
of one of them, that man will be taken away because of his sin,
but I will hold the watchman accountable for his blood."
- Eze 33:6
- - -
Posted by: Vicegerent
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